Ashwin Krishnan (’10) is the Vice President, Business Affairs (Legal) at Major League Soccer, and the founder of JSEL at Harvard Law School. JSEL’s Lauryn Wang spoke to Mr. Krishnan about how he established JSEL as a student in 2010 and his unique career trajectory in the sports industry spanning team counsel, league counsel, and sports betting.
Lauryn Wang: Can you provide a brief introduction of your background before we launch into the questions?
Ashwin Krishnan: I was born and raised in San Diego, California. I went to Harvard College, class of 2005. I did a year abroad at the University of Cambridge, getting a master’s in political science. I did one year of consulting in Boston at LEK. Then I went to Harvard Law School, and graduated class of 2010.
Lauryn Wang: What inspired you to establish JSEL and what were some early challenges with getting the journal off the ground when you were a student?
Ashwin Krishnan: This came about in my 2L year. I looked at all the other journals that were available, and I wasn’t terribly interested in any of those subjects.
In combination with getting exposed to Professor Carfagna and the sports law program on campus as a 1L, I was wondering why we didn’t really have any journal that was sports and entertainment law focused.
I did a survey of the landscape, and I realized that there was really a big opportunity for a school like Harvard with its name and network, to be a leader in this field. I thought that there is really an opportunity here for us to put our brand name, and along with our talented alumni and student base all together and become more of a powerhouse in this area. That was kind of the inspiration, the impetus for it.
The challenges that we faced were a handful. One, you’ve got the administration. They’ve got to
approve this and think that this is a real and lasting journal, and something that’s going to be there for a while. They don’t want to have journals that pop up and then close down. So, I had to prove that this was a legitimate pursuit and something that was really supported by students, had good alumni, had scholarly folks that would provide articles, everything that you would need to support a journal for the long term–faculty support as well.
Professor Carfagna was obviously very enthusiastic, and happy to support on the sports side. We had Bruce Hay, who supported the entertainment side. He was teaching an entertainment law course at the time, and we got his support as well, so we could have both sports and entertainment law covered.
We went to the academic community and said, here are some of the leading authors–would you be interested? Would you write a letter of recommendation, letter of support, saying, if this journal were to exist, I would love to contribute and write articles.
It was similar with alumni. We went to various prominent alumni that we are fortunate to have, and said, there’s this new endeavor we want to do, is this something you’d support? And we got several letters of support.
Fascinatingly enough, I think it was around 2004, Mike Zarren, who hosts the Sports Law clinical placement with the Celtics, was part of a group that attempted to start a journal, and so he actually had some introductory paperwork and a constitution or charter and some other forms they filled out with student support, so I was able to use that as a template and buttress it with new things and elements to make the case even stronger.
The last element was student support, just going to the student base and saying, who would sign up to be on this journal? Sports, entertainment, folks that just happen to be interested in this area. I put all that together, met with the administration a couple times, and fortunately, got approved.
Lauryn Wang: Were there any particularly memorable pieces or articles that you worked on with JSEL?
Ashwin Krishnan: One that comes to mind was the piece by Michael McCann. He’s a leading sports law scholar. He’s the guy who, every time some news breaks in the sports law world, he somehow manages to get an article up in a couple hours, analyzing the key issues.
He, to me and to many of us, was the leading voice in terms of sports law being an academic subject and something that people wrote scholarly legal articles about.
We were able to get him to do a piece. It was related to the NBA and single entity status, which is fascinating now that I work in soccer, and we are part of a single entity.
At the time, he was looking at the NBA, the NFL was in the America Needle antitrust case, and so he was looking at the NBA and its operations and whether there might be an argument that it should be treated as a single entity, given everything it does internationally.
We were just thrilled to have him be a part of that inaugural issue, just because we viewed him as such a leader in this space, and someone that gave a lot of credence to this endeavor.
When people talk about sports law, it’s not just watching ESPN highlights, it’s actually thinking about real serious legal issues that go to the Supreme Court and how it affects business and everything else in the industry.
Lauryn Wang: What formative experiences did you have at HLS? You mentioned Carfagna’s class and the Sports Law Clinic, but what equipped you for your roles in the sports industry today?
Ashwin Krishnan: Professor Carfagna will joke about it, but I think I majored in sports law. I think at the time it was just the one class when I was a 1L. I asked myself – there’s this class, there’s this society – how else can I get immersed and involved in this field? And so it took a variety of different forms.
We talked about the Journal. I became the president of the Sports Law Society, did an internship my 2L year with the Celtics, did an internship my 3L year with the Marlins, which became my full-time job.
I wrote research papers for Professor Carfagna. I TA’d his courses. I organized panels and symposiums.
When people say, oh, I’m interested in sports, I’m like, okay, here’s the extreme of what you can do.
Probably by now there’s people that have done even more, but I really took it to heart to say, I really want to get into this industry.
Law school is probably the best time to network and build those connections, because people can all remember back to being in law school and not knowing what they wanted to do. You’re a little bit more sympathetic. I think people feel like they can do more for you when you’re a law student versus being five years out as a practicing attorney, already down a different path.
I wanted to do everything. I wanted to say, okay, what can I do to immerse myself in this field, to meet people, to get exposure to everything?
And if it doesn’t work out, great – I go to a law firm, go wherever, and, that’s that. But I didn’t want to leave law school with any regrets, and just wanted to pursue everything I could.
Professor Carfagna was great about giving me those opportunities and helping out in a variety of different ways with his courses and the program.
It’s been great to have all that experience to draw back on, and it’s been invaluable, both from a networking and career perspective, and also from a substantive knowledge and getting exposure to some of the issues in this industry early.
Lauryn Wang: You worked at the Celtics and the Marlins, how did those experiences inform your career trajectory?
Ashwin Krishnan: I think both of those experiences were the most formative, impactful experiences in my career trajectory, because I got to see what it would be like to be an in-house lawyer for a team, and I absolutely loved it. I knew at that point, this is my dream job, this is what I want to do.
If I can come into a stadium every day and think about legal issues that affect the team in a variety of different ways, that is the coolest thing in the world for me.
First at the Celtics, then at the Marlins, it reinforced that this is what in-house counsel does.
I got exposure to working on ticket sales agreements, sponsorship agreements, marketing agreements, vendor agreements, back-office agreements for, IT, finance, payroll, things that are less glamorous. But I just loved how everything, at the end of the day, was connected back to the product and the idea of hosting events at your venue, team games, other events, really getting a chance to bring people together, and I was fascinated by how my little piece contributed to the larger puzzle.
Working on this sponsorship agreement, now I go to the game, and I see the sign up there, and I know that I played a small part in that happening. That connectivity was really exciting for me. As the legal department, you work with all the other departments, and often you are the connector between departments.
Lauryn Wang: What factored into that decision to work at Betr, and how was the transition?
Ashwin Krishnan: As I mentioned, I went from my internship my 3L year straight into the Marlins, so that was my first experience, and at the time, my only experience.
I evaluated where I was and said, “I’ve been general counsel here for 5-6 years at that point. I’ve done what I can do here.” We just did a naming rights deal, we did a media rights deal. We accomplished some of the bigger projects that we needed to accomplish there, and I was also cognizant of looking up one day and saying, “oh, 15 years have gone by, 20 years have gone by, I only have one experience on my resume. I haven’t tried anything else, I don’t know what else is out there, I haven’t challenged myself.”
So I started to look for other opportunities, things that might, be sports-adjacent, things that would give me a different perspective into the same industry.
At the time, sports betting was really taking off, and all the leagues and teams were figuring out, how do we navigate this? How do we deal with this? What do we do? And I had the opportunity to join a sports betting startup. It was also based in Miami, so I didn’t have to move.
I thought it was also exciting for that startup element, because I had been at the Marlins, which was a professional sports team environment, which is more established and has its processes and everything, to, I think, the 8th employee at a startup.
I thought it would just be a good experience for me to try something totally different in terms of being at and helping develop a startup organization versus an established company.
Sports betting was, from a legal perspective, fascinating. It expanded and took hold in a variety of states and popped up at every arena and stadium that you go to.
I did that for about two and a half years and enjoyed learning about the gaming industry, all the issues, dealing with regulators, governors, politicians, legal issues that popped up from every jurisdiction you’re in just because of the novel nature of what you’re trying to do.
But over time, I realized my true passion was more on the traditional sports side–the legal issues that affect the business of sports, the team, league issues, sponsorships, marketing, all the complexities that come with hosting events and putting on sporting competitions. That’s what led to my pivot to Major League Soccer.
I was looking for another opportunity after Betr, and I thought the league experience would be really interesting for me, just having spent so much time at a team.
I thought complementing it with a league perspective would be really fascinating, and for all the reasons we’ve discussed earlier, it has been.
I really enjoy the policy-making, regulatory aspect of it–taking a step back. When you’re at a team, you’re head’s down, go, go, go, close deals, bring in revenue, and do as much as you can to improve your team’s standing. I think at the league level, you take a step back, hit pause for a bit and say, what should we be doing when these new issues come up? Prediction markets, crypto, alcohol or betting sponsors on jerseys.
How does this affect all 30 teams? How does this affect the league? What should we be doing? What’s the right stance for us from a policy perspective? Should the clubs be doing it? Should the leagues be doing it?
When you’re doing a sponsorship agreement at the league level you have to think about how it affects all 30 clubs? There may be a club that has a really important sponsor in that category, how’s it going to affect them?
Those types of considerations have been really interesting for me to think about. I’ve really enjoyed dealing with club counsel. I was in their role, I know what they’re dealing with, I know the pressures they face, and I have a sense of the way they’re thinking about things.
Lauryn Wang: What are some of the most prominent legal and business trends impacting the sports industry in your perspective today?
Ashwin Krishnan: The globalization of the sports industry, in general. We’ve seen it certainly with MLB, NBA, NFL, and how much they’re trying to play games internationally, how much they’ve drawn from international talent coming into their leagues.
Thinking about how sports has become a product for international markets has become front and center for us in soccer, where the pre-eminent leagues tend to be in Europe.
We’re looking at a potential calendar change to align with that schedule to make transfers easier, to make international windows easier.
Our hope is that by aligning with what the prevailing norm is MLS will become a more international product as well, just because of the player transfer element, but also because of people’s viewing calendars.
I think another big trend is streaming and media rights. I think people have become very accustomed now to not having a traditional cable bundle, and using their phone, using their iPads, watching sports wherever they are.
It’s also led to the fragmentation. I think I saw something with the NBA where you need to have five or six different services in order to watch your team’s games over the course of an 82-game season.
It’s tough, you might end up having to pay like $150-200 a month.
Media rights deals are very lucrative for sports leagues, and you want to maximize the amount of money you get for your ownership. But at the same time, it makes it really tough for the consumer if they have to go get all these different services to watch their team’s games.
I think that’s a big challenge that we as leagues are facing, how do we maximize the revenue pot by bringing in all these different services, but how do we also make it convenient and easy for our fans to watch our games.
Lauryn Wang: What skills or experiences do you recommend that law students develop early in their careers if they’re hoping to work in a sports-related legal role?
Ashwin Krishnan: I think the number one thing for me is not even a legal skill, it’s more of a life skill: just being a people person. I think this industry, more so than a lot of other industries, is about your personality and your ability to get along with different types of people. Certainly, networking in a professional capacity, but more so, just doing the job every day, you work with so many different types of people as a sports lawyer, from different departments within your league or team, for example.
You work with creative people on the marketing side, you work with really technical people on the data or IT side. You have to be able to move between different worlds very easily and quickly, and deal with different types of people.
You have to be able to adapt to all the different types of business folks that you’re going to work with and partner with, so being a people person who is able to get along with different personalities, different working styles, is one of the most important skills.
The other part is you need to be a good lawyer. At the end of the day, we can talk about sports and the business of sports all day, but you’re likely going to be asked to redline an agreement. You’re going to have to look at an indemnification clause, you’re going to have to look at reps and warranties, limitation of liability, termination, etc.
You have to think about those issues as a lawyer would. So take the courses you’re interested in – contract law, IP law, labor law, antitrust, but you’re going to need to become a good lawyer one way or another, whether it’s through law school and internships and training, or going to a law firm and getting the training there, or however you get it.
